📝 Words by Mike Munzenrider
🎨 Art by Francesco Pini
Do you remember that demo?
Ben Jones, co-owner of Kinetic Skateboarding, in Wilmington, Delaware, does. It was the early-90s, Toy Machine. Jahmal Williams and Jerry Fowler were still on the team. It was at a metal skatepark in Fayetteville, North Carolina. “It’s seared into my brain how hard Ed Templeton ripped,” Jones says.
Many readers of this article do remember that demo — a flashbulb moment early in on in a love affair with skateboarding that really sealed the deal — but such memories are becoming increasingly harder to make. That’s one of the takeaways from the Quartersnacks Anonymous Skateshop Survey. We reached out to 20 shops all over the United States that we have close ties with. We asked five questions, but ultimately, tried to get to the bottom of one. It began as a joke, but maybe it isn’t one? There’s a widespread refrain right now that skateboarding is “fucked.” So, is skateboarding “fucked?” …again?
This all starts with the pandemic. “Everyone had free money,” says Jones, who has operated Kinetic with his business partner Brannon John for 22 years. “If you’re a 20-something, you were getting checks from the government and you were also limited in what you could do – bars weren’t open, team sports weren’t happening, so skateboarding and other outdoor things were the natural things to gravitate to.”
Jones says the COVID-19 business boom peaked in May 2021. And while he says he knew at the time that it wouldn’t last forever, others did not. “It’s hard to think how companies and shops thought that was the new normal.” He estimates that just 10 percent of the people who bought a pandemic skateboard ended up being return customers.
The pandemic boom led to skateboard product shortages and then production overruns. Jones says the price of a skateboard, while previously artificially low, has jumped in the past five years. A starter complete at Kinetic in 2019 was around $135; now’s it’s north of $200. Survey respondents say board companies selling direct to consumers at lower prices than what a shop can sell for eats into their bottom lines. Jones says Kinetic used to host frequent demos; now, there’s a demo once every year or two. “Your job as a pro skater is to be the favorite skater of a whole bunch of kids who want to buy your board,” he says. “Go to the town, rip their spots, give a high five.”
But the malaise extends beyond business and demos. Survey respondents say today’s young skaters are less obsessed with skateboarding than previous generations. At the same time, Jones says his average customer is significantly older than in the past – they’re now in their late-20s as opposed to their mid-teens, as was the standard going back twenty years. “For [their age] to have almost doubled, it’s a bad sign,” he says.
So what gives? And what can be done? We heard from 14 of the 20 shops we reached out to, and offered them anonymity so they — the shop managers, owners, worker and lurkers — could speak freely. The following is what they had to say, edited for clarity and length.
Thank you to all the shops that took the time to answer our questions. And as a postscript to this introduction, says one shop owner: “What honestly frustrates me on these topics, though, is that when shit gets rough in skating, everyone asks the shops what’s up. Then it sounds like we are crying. I personally would like to see y’all ask the companies the same questions.” If brands are willing to participate, that’s a future article.
What would you say are the best selling brands for you right now?
Top board brands by mention:
1. Anti-Hero (6)
2. Baker (5)
T-3. Limosine (4)
T-3. Shop brand (4)
T-3. “Deluxe”
Top shoe brands by mention:
1. Nike SB (13)
2. New Balance Numeric (7)
3. Vans (4)
4. Cons (3)
Top clothing brands by mention:
1. Shop brand (6)
2. Butter Goods (4)
T-3. Carpet
T-3. Stussy
Shop comments:
“So many good [board brands are] out right now. Not sure if it’s good or bad… a lot of the different companies become interchangeable.”
“[Our] best selling shoes are Nike SB, but that’s pretty heavily concentrated around Dunks, which do sell to skateboarders, but a lot of other people are after them.”
“In the last few years, [clothing brands have] all gotten so expensive and customers are not making any more money.”
“Our shop clothing [sells best]… people are more psyched to rep our shit than the industry.”
What isn’t “working” in skateboarding right now, that may have worked in the recent past? This can be answered any way you like: retail, product, media, cultural landscape, etc.
“Larger brands selling direct-to-consumer… Many brands are selling much of the same product that shops are buying from them, [but] at a deep discount. We need big brands supporting shops, not competing with them online.”
“Expectations – maybe expectations about how things should be are a little warped. I suspect that skateboarding isn’t that cool to the masses right now, which makes the business side of things tough. Going from peak cool to losing that status, on some level, could be having a negative impact on the vibe within the culture and industry. I think some of the best barometers of how skateboarding is perceived to the masses are Vans, Thrasher and Supreme, and none of those brands seem to be doing as well as they’ve done historically.”
“What isn’t working is the old approaches to doing things in the industry. You had a team, and they were great skaters or interesting and creative, etc. They had fans or people that enjoyed watching them skate. People seem less inclined to want to associate with a specific rider, or buy a shoe or board just because it’s that riders’ model. In the last five to seven years, I have seen more and more people actually shy away from pro-branded product, unless what they are buying is exactly what they want. We see a lot of kids that think – they tell us – that they are on the same level as many of the pros they see on Insta, ‘so why should I be riding their stuff?’ This is a pretty huge departure from the way things used to work, and I have been trying to discuss it with some of the larger brands, and it seems to fall on deaf ears.”
“Lots of brands are starting to look exactly the same.”
“Everyone has a board brand. We don’t care. Cool, you and your friends that nobody knows. Not everyone is in tune with your cool group of friends, [and you] started a company. We’re not paying the same price for it that we would a Deluxe board. Sorry. Customers have spoken. That shit is in the sale bin now, warping.”
“Pros that have a fucking pro shoe [who] don’t push their own shit.”
“I think skating needs to get some backbone again. Make skateboarders skate, put in the work, do demos and signings. Make the experiences happen like they used to. If skaters can get back to making the fans have an experience, that could help sell more boards, sell more shoes and help the shops move both.”
“We need more legit superstars in skateboarding.”
What is “working” in skateboarding right now?
“Soft wheels that slide.”
“The brands that are doing well for us are offering something that is good in terms of product, but also have teams, videos and a sense of purpose. Limo is a great example for us, as they put out videos that people are always talking about in the shop, have a great team of people that can obviously skate, but you feel that there is more to it than that, as well. That seems to matter, and I think it should.”
“Tangible art, zines, video premieres, events. Demos for shops, especially when not located in a major metro area. Kids don’t get to see pros that often anymore outside of major cities. Shop collaborations with brands – these always get a good response.”
“Collabs that are done correctly with a backstory that is told to the consumer – and the product that backs it up. Butter Goods x Blue Note as an example.”
“Local community. That seems to be the only thing driving what’s around us. If we didn’t put on contests and events, I’m not sure where this city’s skateboarding scene would be. My shop just partnered with the local public school system to be the vendor for all of their skateboard clubs and after school programs. That’s been fun to bring skateboarding to kids who never would have seen it at a young age.”
“Nothing.”
“Skateboarding is working right now and always will. That is something that can’t be controlled or dictated. The freedom and expression of skating is the most beautiful part and I’m glad to help. To answer your question though: Thank you Deluxe for actually caring about skateboarding as a whole, with no direct to consumer [sales] and actually supporting shops.”
What would you say are the biggest differences between the newest/current generation of skaters coming into the shop v.s. ones in times past?
“Knowledge of, and genuinely caring about, skateboarding as a whole. The new generation seems less invested than previous generations, but it’s understandable. With so many new pros being added to the mix, the rapid cycle of skate content, floods of new pro shoes and colorways and all the new brands popping up, it’s hard to keep up. The industry is devaluing itself.”
“The new generation seems to be more open-minded, less negative and also seems to care about the generation we came up in, the mid-to-late-90s era, whereas in times past, it seemed as if all that mattered was today.”
“The younger kids that do come and hang out still feel pretty similar to me as any kids in the past, but maybe fewer kids spend as much time around the shop. They used to have to come in to watch a new video, read a mag, connect with other skaters. Now that’s all on their phones, but I think that they’re missing out on something that has shaped a lot of skateboarders historically. The ones that get that are probably the lifers.”
“We used to see way more crews of kids that skated together, came into the shop together, and we’d see them for years. Now that’s not nearly as common. We see a lot more individuals or smaller crews. Also, kids that start skating often don’t wrap skateboarding up as their indentity, they do a bunch of different things, and might happen to also skateboard and even be good at it, whereas younger kids in the past were like, ‘We are skaters.'”
“Some of the biggest rippers right now are just nobodies with a crazy amount of followers on Instagram. If Nike sends these skaters a box, it’s cheaper for the brand than hooking up and contracting an actual skateboarder who has been killing it in their local scene, riding for the local shop that spends lots of money with the brand, and the community knows this because they’re involved.”
“The new generation still wants to hang at the shop, but they might want to stay and fingerboard instead of watching a video.”
“The skateboarders of the past were straight up scared – skateboarding was mean – you had to really want to be a part of it. Was it better that way? I don’t know. It sucked at times, but compared to some of the shit going on now – you tell me.”
What conditions would you like to see going forward so that skateboarding can thrive?
“Brands paying their riders to do more demos around the country. That’s some magical shit for younger skaters – and even older guys – and it helps pros maintain a level of importance with the new generation and create true skateboarding lifers.”
“Bigger brands making the effort for more in-real-life stuff to happen. Get the teams back on the road again.”
“Everyone just needs to chill and focus on skating.”
“I would be very interested in seeing some new board companies founded and run by younger skaters. There could be something that a different viewpoint could bring to the table that we haven’t even considered. I would also like to see some younger folks in marketing roles and positions in larger companies where they would have more of a decision-making role, or least have a realistic seat at the table to contribute.”
“We just have to pull the reigns back while times are slow. Be incredibly selective with what we’re stocking and don’t be afraid to say ‘no.’ Make sure brands earn their real estate on the wall.”
“In order for skating to thrive, we need to find a way to support core brands and core shops, while leveraging larger corporate brands with deep pockets to fund authentic efforts. New things need to happen, but in a quality manner – just because it hasn’t been done yet, doesn’t mean it should.”
“Footwear and clothing brands: Please turn attention around and shine a spotlight on the skateboard companies again. We need skateboarders to be skateboarders. High fashion, modeling gigs, TikTok dances — shit like that aren’t going to create more skateboarders.”
“Do the heavy lifting on behalf of your scene with no expectations – do that over and over and over. We are all going to be just fine, skateboarding has always been hard.”
Thank you to everyone who took the time out to respond to our questions.
Loosely Related: Stories About Shirts — Skate Shop Tees And The Meaning of Life
Been saying bits of this for a while. I work in the industry (cringe when i say that) and kids need demos. Their would-be heroes are skating in isolation, hopefully creating content, but away from where kids will see them. If i was a kid these days I’d buy the pro board of somebody that made the fucking effort to show up, rather than somebody you only ever see in videos from a huge brand that should know better. Contests are wack now but we can create other events that get people together, we need a community again – not just people skating on your phone.
lmao yall should have this free game behind a paywall. doing the big brands work for them.
Interesting article, closing quote really was perfect.
would love to see a regional breakdown of brands that are selling
because I have never seen anyone ride a carpet or limo board
It’s interesting cause I have recently been reflecting on a jump ramp demo that Staab was at in Garden Grove in the 80s. He is a vert skater and was at a loss for what to do on the jump ramp, so against the shop owner’s wishes, he invited us groms to skate. The demo went wild and even he got in the mix and spun some hippie twists along with the rest of us. He became one of my favorite skaters that day. I have such fond memories of that day, his attitude, and the stoke he brought.
Kids today probably need that. I think they definitely do.
Everything sucks about skateboarding except skateboarding
Re: regional breakdown…
Obvs not going to give away shop locs, but every shop could def be described as being in a city.
The Covid era seemed great for skateboarding because from my perspective it happened at the same time that skating opened up and for lack of a better word it became inclusive. Watch Jeff Grosso’s last show! Which relates to the fact that it makes sense that Anti-Hero is the most popular board! I mean what is anti hero?? What do they stand for? How have they functioned? They are clearly the most hardcore, straight up, nitty gritty gang of skateboarders who are dedicated to an almost spiritual level. But that “company” was started in the mid 90’s! Can folks start shit up like that today? The world is in a much rougher place I think.
Also a great optimism about kids supporting the shop merch. Skateboarding is community and it is culture, and the culture is the street or the banter on the deck of the ramp and the real life experience! I think skateboarding is in a double edged sword position like gentrification, the parks are everywhere, you can trouble shoot and learn anything on YouTube it’s all so available. But! The local hand made, shop talk, street style is in jeopardy. That’s the most important part. “It’s what you make it man!!!” D-Boon
Best quote of the piece-
“Tangible art, zines, video premieres, events. Demos for shops, especially when not located in a major metro area. Kids don’t get to see pros that often anymore outside of major cities. Shop collaborations with brands – these always get a good response.”
Thank you quarter Snacks for this convo and opportunity to explode ma bad brains
Sorry guys here’s my real enormous comment:
I had no idea that this question of Skateboarding being fucked was in fact in the zeitgeist. Grassroots homemade local style is where it’s at, that’s what the art form is about, skating together and tripping on peoples style swagger, and most importantly courage! Skaters should be bananas like Gonz and Blender and go wild! We all Harken back to our time when we grew up I think. To me as a 90’s kid we had these distinct styles like Cards, Quim, Shao, Stevie Williams, Mike Carroll etc. Bu the way – the skateboarding population is huge!! It was so small and localized in the old days.
The Covid era seemed great for skateboarding because from my perspective it happened at the same time that skating opened up and for lack of a better word it became inclusive. Watch Jeff Grosso’s last show! Which relates to the fact that it makes sense that Anti-Hero is the most popular board! I mean what is anti hero?? What do they stand for? How have they functioned? They are clearly the most hardcore, straight up, nitty gritty gang of skateboarders who are dedicated to an almost spiritual level. But that “company” was started in the mid 90’s! Can folks start shit up like that today? The world is in a much rougher place I think.
Also a great optimism about kids supporting the shop merch. Skateboarding is community and it is culture, and the culture is the street or the banter on the deck of the ramp and the real life experience! I think skateboarding is in a double edged sword position like gentrification, the parks are everywhere, you can trouble shoot and learn anything on YouTube it’s all so available. But! The local hand made, shop talk, street style is in jeopardy. That’s the most important part. “It’s what you make it man!!!” D-Boon
Best quote of the piece-
“Tangible art, zines, video premieres, events. Demos for shops, especially when not located in a major metro area. Kids don’t get to see pros that often anymore outside of major cities. Shop collaborations with brands – these always get a good response.”
This survey is rad and the answers remind me a lot of the early 90s – not the same but a similar vibe and malaise.
When I was a kid, nobody cared who you were as long as you were willing to pay the price of being ostracized by your peers for only the act of skateboarding and/or blood and sweat — slams aren’t for the faint of heart. Today, everyone wants to be labeled and have a cause, but nobody wants to work for it – and that’s not how things work – not things that endure the test of time.
I argue that it’s skateboarding’s inherent inclusiveness that made it ripe for being overtaken by the kooks and nannies who try want to assume the role of “thought police” and try to control everyone’s thinking and behavior (both liberals and conservatives), which is antithetical to skateboarding. When that stuff happened in the 80s, we usually rolled our eyes and just skated, because that was the most importantly thing.
It seems the most important thing is no longer the most important thing.
Brands like Thrasher and Vans once stood for individual expression in and for core skateboarding. Today, both are lifestyle companies and more “aspirational” than anything. Thrasher looks more like a Vogue catalog with an occasional story about skating, and sometimes the gnarliest skating is in the ads. Vans has focused on everyone except skaters for years. If those brands aren’t doing well, maybe it’s a matter of relevance.
As a geezer and having been round the block once or twice, skating has seen its longest streak of popularity over the past 30+ years. When was a kid, it “died” at least twice. Once in the early 80s and again in the 90s. X-Games and Tony Hawk revived it. Actually, he was part of both revivals and the focus was keeping the main thing the main thing – and that thing is skateboarding. Apolitical in nature, just doing it for the love. Not skateboarding + [insert your cause here].
Or, maybe I’m just old, but I’m GenX and I don’t care what you think about me.
Great article.
Favorite response to question was :
“Nothing.”
Scarcity is key
Isn’t the author a big bootlicker I’m the whole ABD clown circus??? That whole mentality is cooked and a small chunk of why we at where we’re at.
The Olympics killed skateboarding.
man i can’t think of a development in skateboarding that has been as easy to ignore as the olympics. you’re just bored bro.
No idea what youre talking about, cyberstalking writers on X the everything app and Slap is not skateboarding and not relevant to this conversation
I’ve seen other creative outlets like graffiti and even dj’ing co-op Jake Phelps’ quote of, “skateboarding doesn’t owe you anything, you owe skateboarding” to their thing. Thankfully, for many good reasons, it doesn’t work for anything else but skateboarding.
i think everyone talking here is speaking with the idea and love of skateboarding continuing to be healthy, not in a “i want more people to skate so my shop can make more money” angle
Since I started skating in 1999/2000 (idk I was about 10) there have been 3 recessions. I wasn’t old enough to be aware of the dot-com bubble burst in ~2001 (and am curious if skating took a hit then?), but I remember working at a skate shop during the 2007-2009 one, and the shop owner being like “this is crazy, we used to make a ton more money.” This was right after the Bam craze that really brought in a huge boom to board sales, and I’m sure skateboarding as a whole profited from having someone become so commercial. For a kid reading this, Bam was our equivalent of Polar jeans in terms of bringing in more money to skate shops.
I worked at and owned a shop the 10 years following.
It all seems pretty tied to the economy in terms of things being good or not sales-wise. Skating has a relatively low entry-fee, but when you are worried about the economy, your job, or where the world is gonna be in 6 months time, the last thing you’re doing is buying yourself or a kid a new board or pair of shoes. Or you’re finding the cheapest version. And what’s happened again? Once again we are in the midst of a recession (yes, we are not technically in one according to economists touting job openings and household spending, but it feels pretty obvious we are in one, not to mention people in the US very typically spend outside their means). So people cut back on these kind of seemingly flippant things.
All of this, then you add the nature of how skating has changed since social media. We are hit with a barrage of the most insane shit everyday from every angle. There’s a new video, collab, clothing brand, shoe, article, review, etc. 150 times a day. So you just go, I am going to focus on what I have actually in front of me, me! Everyone is rooting for themselves more than ever it seems. Something that used to be taboo. Even when instagram first came out it was corny to post yourself skating. People don’t seem to want to be fans, because they should just be a celebrity or a star themselves. All the while, it’s next to impossible to be paid to skate, even though more people than ever before having good sponsors. There’s just such a larger amount of skaters than ever before. All the sporting brands can’t look after everyone. Reebok, Hoka, and On Running could start million dollar budget skate teams tomorrow and have a completely full roster by the following week, still with plenty of pros left without a paycheck. And that doesn’t even cover half the people that are just as good and aren’t sponsored. And then skate shops have to somehow measure which of all of this shit is going to actually work and sell and keep the lights on.
I think right now is a typical moment where the people who want to do this (shops, brands) will try their best to make it work, but for some it might not work. Maybe even a lot it might not. People are going to continue to keep trying to do more with less. It definitely feels like we’re in a moment of skating feeling like it’s shrinking, despite new (mostly bad) brands popping up all the time.
I’d like to end this with- I don’t necessarily think all or even most skate companies operate because they care so much about skateboarding. I would argue lots of the owners happen to enjoy skating themselves, and have now ended up in the skateboarding business. They care what happens to their business first. There’s a lot of people like this that work in the skate industry. They have done it a long time, so they know it, so they work in it, despite whether or not they are good at it or they give a shit about skating anymore. And when the chips are down, we will see who sticks around.